Cultural reforms continue
Culture and History, Tajikistan28 Comments
Everything started with golden teeth last year. During the visit to one of rural schools Emomali Rahmon met a teacher with golden teeth which caused a bit of irritation of him and he decided to ban wearing of golden teeth throughout the country. For some reasons this decision of him was not transformed into decree. Later on, this kind of decisions of the president came one after the other. The decree on ban of golden teeth would be funny but other decisions of Rahmon ban on Slavic endings in names, ban on head scarves and miniskirts at schools, ban on Soviet style holidays at schools, ban on cell phones and cars at schools – were reinforced by law.
To all these bans were added two more. Yesterday, president Rahmon in republican conference on regulation of national traditions and customs proposed fines for the lavish weddings and funerals.
Those who break the rules will have to pay a fee — about $600 for ordinary citizens and up to $1,500 for civil servants.
The debate on lavish weddings was started long ago and there were established special commissions which were responsible for convincing the population to organize modest weddings and there were even fines but they were lower in comparison to the latest fines. President Rahmon argues that people uselessly spend too much money in two to three days. He says that it would be better if they spend the money for something else. In his opinion lavish wedding is just an eye service.
“According to the state statistic agency, people spend 4.5 to 5 billion somoni a year on various events, whereas state revenues are about 3.3 billion somoni ($960 million),” domestic media quoted Rakhmon as saying.
“On wedding and funeral ceremonies alone, people spent more than a billion somoni last year, and the cattle used to make meals for these events numbered more than 500,000 head,” he said.
In order to make lesser the expenses on weddings and funerals president suggests to invite less guests than the people used to.
According to the new law, the number of guests should not be more than 200 during the weddings and the wedding cortege should not consist of more than four cars. The commemoration should be organized on 40th day after a death and the number of guests should not exceed 100 people.
I would agree with the president that it is useless to invite thousand and more people to weddings or any other ceremonies but it is about privacy. It is always deleterious when a state tries to regulate the private life of the population by certain laws. These fines will not solve the problem. People will pay the fines and organize big weddings. Also no one would care about the state fines if he/she loses his/her relative or a close person. These fines are another source for some corrupt officials to stuff their pockets.
RSS Feeds
Podcasts
Great post Vadim. I agree with you that too big festivities can be sucking up a lot of productive capital. But you can’t decree by iron fist so that less people get invited.
India had/has the same dynamics – i.e. a lot of money wasted on funerals/weddings in rather poor rural communities. The key to addressing this social issue lay in education, though.
Mass awareness campaigns, often led by women, have led to a significant scale reduction of these festivities in several states, such as Gujarat.
I know that the GTZ tried to do similar things in Batken/KGZ.
Reply
[...] UPDATE: Vadim at neweurasia.net has more extensive commentary on the Rahmon reforms. [...]
For those interested, here http://neweurasia.net/?p=315 is an earlier thread about the issue. It’s also a problem in other Stand and in other countries such as Jordan.
I agree with Ben that imposing it restrictions from above is useless.
Many peope think that these lavish festivities are beacuse of ‘Islam(ic tradition)’ but nothing is less true. It’s traditionalism, recently worsened by consumerist pressure and also by the nouveau riche show-off complex.
This said, I don’t think that foreign development projects can be effeticve in this. In Kyr in particular, I noticed already in 2001 and again in 2005 that people are really getting tired of foreign development organisations telling them what to do (ha, especially by types such as that irritating GTZ bloke from Batken I am thinking about).
Reply
I say, well, life can be nasty and difficult in the Stans, why not have a good party once in a while (of course, understanding the social and economic implications of conspicuous and perhaps foolhardy spending)? And, I’m sure some sociologists or anthropoligists may agree that such parties help to increase social capitol; an oppurtunity for relatives and friends to gather and exchange information, renew important relationships, establish hierarchies, reenforce social norms and behaviors (good and bad), and establish rites and traditions that mark significant life passages and transitions.
Reply
I for one thing think that whatever the “traditional roots” of the problem, eventually it will lead to economic progress.
Think of lavish festivities in following “economic” light and you will see that the cause and effect relationships:
1. Sense of self-respect pushes people to seek new ways to earn money.
2. People start thinking about ways to come up with farely large sums of money to fund such activities.
3. These two conditions give rise to farely strong impetus to seek new ways to earn and provide for families. This leads to “outside-the-box” thiking mentality in which convention is challenged. Such challenges will eventually lead to progress.
The end result will push the economy upwards as more money would flow into the country.
Although this does create a positive inflow of capital into the country, the nature of such inflow (mainly remmittances, which originate in different country and the labor which used to create them does not benefit Tajikistan in the long run) does not guarantee such inflows in the future.
Hopefully someday Tajiks will realize that and finally focus on creating assets in their homeland. :)
Reply
What does the president of the country have to do with [interfering] in peoples’ private life? I think a president has to have more important things to mind than golden teeth and lavish ceremonies; similarly it is purely the people’s decision to spend all their money in one night and starve the winter rather than spend their money modestly. I do agree that is is foolish, but i think Tajikistan has more important problems to deal with.
Secondly, who are exactly having the most lavish weddings? It is the government officials and ministers (people employed in his OWN government) who are having the most luxurious of these weddings; how do they fund them? By bribing ordinary people. And trust me, Rahmon himself would throw the most luxurious wedding of all for his own daughters. Honestly, he is contradicting himself.
And besides, who cares if the “nouveau riche” or the bourgeois want to show off their money to their neighbors every once in a while; at least some hudred people will get a free meal for a night and have a nice party. These problems are eventually solved by the access of people to proper education which will automatically reinforce logic in their minds as they will realize simply what’s right and what’s not. No political elephant could do that.
Finally anyway anyway, its capital which will not stay inert in the economy and will start circulating (no matter how) and will boost up the economy to a certain degree.
PS, Tajik Boy, i agree with what you say; it is true that this labour drain, formally “brain drain” during the 90′s will not benefit Tajikistan in the long run, but nor will their stay in Tajikistan. With this lack of superior formation and education in the tajik youth and the educational sector, we will suffer for decades to come as we will lack the necessary ability and knowledge to deal with our problems and develop.
Finally finally it is educated people who guarantee a future. Even if we have so much investment and economic growth and we succeed in “fixing” the political regime, as long as we don’t have tajik engineers working our dams and creating a proper industrial sector in tajikistan, we will never have the country we want to have. So it is not that bad for the children of Tajik labourers at least to get an education in the schools of a foreign country. No matter how much assets you create in your homeland, if you aint got people to work them, it’s pointless. I have seen that in Tajikistan this summer; all people which have access to “good” jobs provided by NGO’s and other foreign companies are the small minority who are at least trilingual and have some proper job experience. Why not make this formation accessible to the populace?
Reply
“who are exactly having the most lavish weddings? It is the government officials and ministers (people employed in his OWN government) who are having the most luxurious of these weddings; how do they fund them? By bribing ordinary people.”
And involvement in drugs traficking. Anyway, I agree with that: officials, the new rich and their families; sometimes/often they are one and the same. As I said, I don’t believe that prohibition from above can change much. It is a typical Soviet illusion.
I am always amused when I see that a bunch of former Soviet apparachiks are reinventing traditions and try to boost their ‘Islamic’ credentials. In Islamic jargon that is called munafiqun (hypocrites). On the other hand, the mere fact that they do the latter indicates, that somehow, they realise all too well that more Islam is unavoidably part of Central Asia’s future like it or not.
“Think of lavish festivities in following economic light and you will see that the cause and effect relationships: etc.”
Hmmm that’s theory from an MBA schoolbook. Besides, what do you want to encourage; that people look for extra ways of income to fund glitter, kitsch and frivolities or more fundamental things?
“Finally finally it is educated people who guarantee a future.”
Hm, it depends who and what you understand under ‘educated people’. It you mean the Soviet-era intelligentsia families, then my expereince is, that they are inert and marginalised and their children recuperated by foreign NGOs and IOs.
Besides, personally I don’t believe so much in the fact that education, though very important, is *by itself* sufficient for social development. That is an illusion of urban intelligentsia (you know them: the kind that feels too good for everything “biicuzz they arrre educated”). I know people with prestigious Ph.Ds. and roaring academic titles who are unemployed or have badly paid jobs, just like I know people who barely finished secondary education yet are succesful entrepreneurs. I admire the latter group a lot.
The essence, IMO, can not be measured in IFI stats or Millenium Goals: it is character, an entrepreneurial mentality and self-respect. To get rid of the slave mentality to start with (eg. through de-tribalised Islam i.e. an option I know Tojikbacha likes ;) ).
Reply
Ataman Rakin, brilliant comments! Thanks!
Reply
“I know people with prestigious Ph.Ds. and roaring academic titles who are unemployed or have badly paid jobs, just like I know people who barely finished secondary education yet are succesful entrepreneurs. I admire the latter group a lot.”
Yes ofcourse Ataman you ARE right, i do know such entrepreneurs too…but lets just stick to statistics; rule of thumb, out of a hundred educated people, how many tend to become successful, and out of a hundred uneducated people, how many?
When i was talking about namely “educated people” i was referring to the children of tajik migrants who tend to get better education than those back home, and not the soviet style intelligentsia, though even some of this type of intelligentsia CAN be useful too.
Secondly, regarding that very small percentage of “uneducated” people who tend to become entrepreneurs by taking a risk, what exactly is your notion of “success”? is it just financial success? Well in that case, i don’t *completely* agree with you. Developing has another meaning to it than purely and purely financial gain. We have seen the impacts of a couple of rich post-soviet/perestroika entrepreneurs who have become so “successful” in Russia. I just can’t see any development to it; well i admit – a little, by the labour created by their companies – but again, who is benefiting from this, – on a large scale?
What you saying is just like calculating development with GDP/capita. I prefer some modest educated people working in all sectors of a proper society rather than *uneducated and admirable* entrepreneurs who have become corrupted millionaires with no sense of culture. I am not discriminating against them – not at all; all i am saying is that our problem cannot be solved with them, we need to develop slowly- if it is to last.
“Hmmm thats theory from an MBA schoolbook. Besides, what do you want to encourage; that people look for extra ways of income to fund glitter, kitsch and frivolities or more fundamental things? ”
Secondly, even if it is coming from an MBA schoolbook, at least there was something to it that it attracted so many people. Well – that is right, but again – finally, setting aside reasons, you can’t deny that it is capital which is flowing. Those people having the wedding can do what they want, but its a business and job opportunity which feeds many people like this; take for instance the caterer, the florists, the dresses bought, the goods, the services circulating…in the end, its not that bad!
Reply
“it is purely the peoples decision to spend all their money in one night and starve the winter rather than spend their money modestly.”
I think this is a naive assumption, Darud, and a very ‘Western’ one at that — thinking that everything is a matter of ‘freedom’ and ‘individual choice’. Because there is this thing called social pressure and emotional blackmail.
When I lived in Batken, Kyr, I knew a family who had a wedding and complained that they had to spend huge sums for celebrations which they simply did not have. They did not felt like doing it, but, so they said “our neighbors and relatives will despise us and create a lot of trouble if we don ‘t (…)”.
“what exactly is your notion of success? is it just financial success?”
That is one part of the story, but not only. Especially, what you have is the formation of what I and Scott Radnitz call ‘grassroots elites’ which on the mid-term may have more political clout than one thinks.
Reply
Yeah Ataman, i guess you’re right; we can’t apply the “occidental” freedom to the traditional Orient; as i said – this is solved by educating people, they’ll automatically know how to ignore the peer pressure and the emotional blackmail; i have proposed my idea and way of resolving this problem – but i don’t see yours. So, what do you propose? You are pro adding taxes to wedding costs? Trust me that won’t stop people from having large parties.
Reply
Hmmm thats theory from an MBA schoolbook. Besides, what do you want to encourage; that people look for extra ways of income to fund glitter, kitsch and frivolities or more fundamental things?
If they start quoting my thoughts in Business Schools, I will let you know (or better yet present you with a booklet with my quotes). But to answer your question, my point was not to pass any judgment on what people do with their money (lets face it is none of our business, am I right?).
Plus my past experience from talking to you tells me that more fundamental things will involve religion, which I dont think should figure prominently in peoples lives (so far it has only created chaos and discontent in Tajikistan). So why dont we let people do what they want with their money. Telling them to spend it on more fundamental things does sound like a current president, but with a different agenda in mind
What I wanted to say was that in developed countries corporations spend millions of dollars to create demand. In Tajikistan we have this inherent demand, which brings home two to three times countrys GDP yearly. True, the nature of such spending does not create assets (which in turn could generate more income inside the country) but that is next stage. First we have to have that money then hopefully someone up in the government will come up with a way to keep that wealth inside the country.
I think this is a naive assumption, Darud, and a very Western one at that thinking that everything is a matter of freedom and individual choice. Because there is this thing called social pressure and emotional blackmail.
Ideas should not be labeled as western or eastern. Those countries who shun from utilizing good ideas just because they did not originate from their continent, country or village are bound to mental degradation. I for one thing think that west became more advanced because it was open to any ideas (be it eastern or western) and capitalized on them. And by the way, social pressure and emotional blackmail are two things that even a teenage boy in the west is capable of coping with. They exist for those who dont have the guts to stand up for themselves.
That is an illusion of urban intelligentsia (you know them: the kind that feels too good for everything biicuzz they arrre educated). I know people with prestigious Ph.Ds. and roaring academic titles who are unemployed or have badly paid jobs, just like I know people who barely finished secondary education yet are succesful entrepreneurs. I admire the latter group a lot.
Although I do too admire the mavericks who achieve a lot on their own, I am somewhat surprised with the way you picture the role of education. Although what you have observed regarding intelegencia does hold water in some rare cases, it is more pertinent to the old soviet school mentality which has no influence in the country and is fast dying. So what you describe is a thing of the past and not relevant to the future of the country.
Young Tajiks I know of are bold, smart, efficient, passionate about their education and ready to rebuild their country. They have totally different mindsets. They love their jobs and are take pride in their education. They are task oriented and rational. They are the kind who do not take anyones BS be it the clergy or anyone who wants to pass himself as a person of authority. To me they are the future of Tajikistan.
Reply
“No matter how much assets you create in your homeland, if you aint got people to work them, its pointless. I have seen that in Tajikistan this summer; all people which have access to good jobs provided by NGOs and other foreign companies are the small minority who are at least trilingual and have some proper job experience. Why not make this formation accessible to the populace?”
Aroud 10 years ago, I worked for an international organization in Tajikistan. The salary was good and I could support my family (and my wife and kids if I got married). Mind you such a job was the dream of any teenage boy at the time, but back then I decided that I should quit and get my education.
Not long ago I was back to Tajikistan and saw how damn right I was with my choice. I did spend 4 excruciating years abroad studying and spending a lot of sleepless nights solving problems, but the result was so much worth it.
Some time ago I forgave the sense of security and “good salary” for something that cannot be measured (education) and so far it has been the best investment (in both monetary and qualitative terms).
The flaw with the idea of having a “good job” in Tajikistan is that it has a limited application and offers little room for professional growth. Those co-workers of mine are still in more or less the same positions where they were 10 years ago. To move forward one should start thinking outside the box. I know this is a cliche but I could not find a better word.
Reply
i have proposed my idea and way of resolving this problem – but i dont see yours. So, what do you propose? You are pro adding taxes to wedding costs? Trust me that wont stop people from having large parties.
Darud, of course taxing wont! I already said that I dont believe in prohibitions and sanctions from above because they are counter-productive anyway. As a matter of fact, I dont believe in a solution in the sense that you take one or a set of measures and then, abracadabra, vsyo pod kontrol.
Education is indeed a good way but then again who or what is going to organise it and bring in the substance? The governement? Stuck in a Soviet/neo-feudal power culture and will abuse it. Foreign NGOs/IOs? Heavily distrusted, often bring in concepts that do not stick/work.
Therefore — and I dont say this as an easy way out — I think on the mid- to long term its more a matter of social mobility and attached mentality change. Some of these processes will actually run by themselves. What we are talking about here (the celebrations etc.) are practices and mindsets that belong to what one could call Soviet-coopted traditionalism: a mixture of (eno-)Sovietism and (often re-invented) traditions.
At the same time, we have all these changes over the last 15 years: the Soviet collapse; that thing that the IFI glitzboys call transition (to what?); the effect of labor migration; the effect of new media, etc. etc. That is eroding Soviet-coopted traditionalism, which will leave a void and will be filled with that very element of CAsian culture that is, at the same time, part of a wider global sphere. These are fields where more Islam (provided its non-traditionalist) definitely bring a lot of benefit to the society (Plus my past experience from talking to you tells me that more fundamental things will involve religion bali :-) )
Believe me, there is a lot of frustration in CA towards social obligations such a crippling lavish celebrations as well as heavy drinking rituals. You can sometimes see and feel it when you happen to be at such events — that people actually do not enjoy being there but are there with a slave mentality (which will not last) this is the way it is because it has to be that way. Its the same with heavy drinking. I remember one day in one of the Stans where I did a trek with a friend, that the local young man who accompanied us said: you know I am so happy that you guys dont drink; I dislike drinking; its unhealthy and I am a Muslim; but if we dont drink, there are people where I live who beat us up. The bloke is not alone.
If they start quoting my thoughts in Business Schools, I will let you know (or better yet present you with a booklet with my quotes).
OK and dont forget to dedicate it. As for lay-out and some ideas on mass marketing approaches, maybe have a look here http://www.rukhnama.com
;-) lol
Young Tajiks I know of are bold, smart, efficient, passionate about their education and ready to rebuild their country. They have totally different mindsets. They love their jobs etc
I believe you. And some of them will certainly play a constructive role once they realise that the way comes neither from Russia nor the West but from For now, though, my question is, what is their weight and influence in Tajik society, or event their link with broader parts of society?
Reply
” For now, though, my question is, what is their weight and influence in Tajik society, or event their link with broader parts of society?”
Good question. The link is that they are Tajiks and given the same phenomena in other nations with similar situation (Jews, Armenians and Iranians) that says a lot. The point here is that no matter where they are or what they do, they will contribute in some form or manner to their homeland.
“You can sometimes see and feel it when you happen to be at such events that people actually do not enjoy being there but are there with a slave mentality (which will not last) this is the way it is because it has to be that way.
What you describe here exist (i.e. some people prefer not to drink), but again you are blowing it out of proportions. For one thing, I don’t think anyone would beat you up if you decide not to drink. LOL.
Second, isn’t it easy to blame society (social pressure and what not)for your failures to live the life you want? I do not believe in this “people-are-hostage-of-their-societal-obligations” BS. Especially in TJ. If you don’t have money you don’t have a wedding. If you want to have a wedding, you work for it.
By the way, “excessive spending” is also a feature of funerals in TJ. If someone dies mullahs make people spend thousands of dollars to feed hundreds of clueless/ignorant musafeds every friday of the week, 40 days and every year after the death of the person.
I take it this is classified as “spending money on more fundamental things”? ;-)
Reply
“For one thing, I dont think anyone would beat you up if you decide not to drink.”
No? Actually, I had such an experience myself. Not that the guy could do much to me but the attempts was there.
“I take it this is classified as spending money on more fundamental things? ”
In other spheres it’s called ‘capacity building’. ;) lol
Reply
“No? Actually, I had such an experience myself. Not that the guy could do much to me but the attempts was there.”
Are you sure it was because you did not drink? That is really strange. Could it be that the guy did not like your haircut or the way you talk (with “accent Francais Je pense”) ;)
Reply
“Aroud 10 years ago, I worked for an international organization in Tajikistan. The salary was good and I could support my family (and my wife and kids if I got married). Mind you such a job was the dream of any teenage boy at the time, but back then I decided that I should quit and get my education.”
That was exactly what i meant; we could say that you were educated in a sense 10 years ago, but u decided to quit and get superior education, that was my notion of developing – education. Trust me, with this level of literacy in TJ, anyone working in such a place is “educated”. That’s where ambition starts, doesn’t it? I didn’t get it: did u dissent or assent? This was a reply to Ataman’s famous “becuzzz they arrrre educated”.
The thing i want to say is – Ataman – investing in Tajikistan and creating assets does not benefit Tajikistan so long as it is not creating jobs for the tajiks, or if the tajiks cannot have access to these jobs. Take for instance in 10 years with this low quality of education, if Iran for instance agrees to complete the Rogun dam, this is a huge investment which can feed the WHOLE nation. If the engineers working the damn are all iranians, how can we call this development, or how can we say that we tajiks are benefiting from this?
“Therefore and I dont say this as an easy way out I think on the mid- to long term its more a matter of social mobility and attached mentality change. Some of these processes will actually run by themselves. What we are talking about here (the celebrations etc.) are practices and mindsets that belong to what one could call Soviet-coopted traditionalism: a mixture of (eno-)Sovietism and (often re-invented) traditions.”
Social mobility and attached mentality change? How can you change that? It is only with rational thinking that these types of mentalities are liable to change. Now i wonder where this rational thinking comes from…
I think that if we track corruption and bring about a right political regime which is unified throughout the country and is fair and just, with the fiscality which is going into the pockets of certain people, i think we are able to give more salaries to teachers than the mere 20 bucks a month, these teachers with proper salaries now will think twice before accepting a bribe and the education standards will gradually improve.
Your notion of “social mobility” is very vague, and changing the mentality of someone is virtually impossible on a large scale concerning a society. You may be able to brainwash a guy and change his mentality, but you can’t do that to every single person in the country – unless – you’re a dictator. Let’s wish you’re not Ataman. ;) :)
“That is eroding Soviet-coopted traditionalism, which will leave a void and will be filled with that very element of CAsian culture that is, at the same time, part of a wider global sphere. These are fields where more Islam (provided its non-traditionalist) definitely bring a lot of benefit to the society”
Religion in this case…Name me one non-propagandist, non-traditionalist modernist religious/political organization which has been able to overcome political and economic crisis in a country.
Religious/political organizations are usually found with good and human reasons to help and protect people and establish equality, but with their growth and involvment in politics and in power, they tend to disintegrate from the very reason and belief they originated from. They tend to become conservative-propagandist regimes. Look at Iran; they killed the Shah coz he was bad, now they’re complaining from the mullahs. They were complaining about freedom of speech, now ALL press and TV is censored. I’ve said it before – religion and politics don’t just give the right cake.
I know Ataman that that is not what you meant – having a islamic regime but rather the modernist islam spread among people, but i think that you are idealising the role of modern islam here. I think we have to stick to the reality and see simply what will work and what not. People in the CA have already had an experience of Islam – which has been so far – traditionalist/propaganda. They just can’t easily “understand” your notion of modernist Islam. These two words just doesn’t go together in one phrase for them.
“By the way, excessive spending is also a feature of funerals in TJ. If someone dies mullahs make people spend thousands of dollars to feed hundreds of clueless/ignorant musafeds every friday of the week, 40 days and every year after the death of the person.
I take it this is classified as spending money on more fundamental things? ” ——LOL (so true)
“Second, isnt it easy to blame society (social pressure and what not)for your failures to live the life you want? I do not believe in this people-are-hostage-of-their-societal-obligations BS. Especially in TJ. If you dont have money you dont have a wedding. If you want to have a wedding, you work for it. ”
Now the peer pressure and feeling obligated to throw a wedding with “dagh-dagha” (feels good to use tajik expressions every once in a while :) ) is true to a certain extent – i have seen it up close. But let’s just not go to extremes.
Ataman – it’s true – noone will beat you up if you refuse to drink.
Tajik boy – we can’t say this feeling of obligations and peer pressure is completely ignorable.
You guys are both right to a certain extent, but not completely. Tajiks do feel these social obligations and the feeling of shame they have when they fail to have their lavish parties and “obroo” they lose in front of “dar-u-hamsoya”. But – they can face it too. They can be logical and think about the winter – to an extent. Or they can “se foutre” and throw the party. Thats my notion of democracy – to be able to choose what you want to do – in the worstestest of conditions. :-)
Reply
Btw, Vadim, i really liked this phrase you used in your article: “Emomali Rahmon met a teacher with golden teeth which caused a bit of irritation of him and he decided to ban wearing of golden teeth throughout the country.”
May i ask you the source? Or if you wrote it yourself?
I really admire presidents who ban everything which “irritates” them. Such a strong presidency who can represent the country’s “irritation” for golden teeth. It’s admirable.:)
Reply
Your notion of social mobility is very vague, and changing the mentality of someone is virtually impossible on a large scale concerning a society. You may be able to brainwash a guy and change his mentality, but you cant do that to every single person in the country – unless – youre a dictator. Lets wish youre not Ataman
Bwah Darud, mentalities are not changed by somebody or something. They evolve. At the end of the day, many of these processes start not because you, me, the Communist Party or the Padishah want it, but by a convergence of circumstances and factors that are under no-ones control (very un-Soviet that is ;) ). Take the labor migration. Was that a government policy to send people to Russia? No. It was a natural flow.
OK regarding you question about what social mobility is There are sociological definitions of it. But in the field (which is what interests me most of all) what I see as social mobility is that peoples social enviroment changes, often abruptly so (USSR collapse, transition, etc.). That makes them mobile, most often when they try to cope with those changes: a) horizontally mobile (eg. rural-urban migration, seasonal work abroad) and well as b) vertically mobile (eg. impoverishment/enrichment, change of occupation, access to new media, peoples intellectual status that does not match social-financial status; etc.). In turn, that leads to a) erosion of traditional cultural frameworks (Soviet-cum-traditionalist) and leaves a cultural void which has to be filled; b) new expectations/ambitions and, unavoidably, frustrations. It is a) and b) that set things moving.
Note that I do not use the word culture for art and folklore (which is what most people limit it to), but for mentality, norms and values and ways of social organisation.
Look at Iran; they killed the Shah coz he was bad, now theyre complaining from the mullahs. They were complaining about freedom of speech, now ALL press and TV is censored.
Well, they installed an Islamic state which is NOT the way and to which I am 500% opposed. BWT, the revolutionaries did not killed Pahlavi nor his family. He died in exile of a cancer that he already had.
but i think that you are idealising the role of modern islam here.
No I dont (well I know that some think that I actually have radical wolf-in-sheepskin agenda but OK that is more amusing than irritating to me). Believe me, if I say what I say on this forum it is not because of some woolly idealistic tralala, but because I am confident about it after having worked and lived for years in the region and returned regularly since.
Those who believe that they can graft Western/liberal concepts in the regions and expect that the CAsians will thank them for it, *they* are naïve.
Are you sure it was because you did not drink? That is really strange. Could it be that the guy did not like your haircut or the way you talk
Strange but very true my friend (it was not in Taj but another Stan btw but still it’s regional) and it has happend to others too. Hm after thorough examination, I have to conclude that it was probably my haircut–or rather the complete lack thereof since there’s little left to cut. ;)
Reply
“Bwah Darud, mentalities are not changed by somebody or something. They evolve. At the end of the day, many of these processes start not because you, me, the Communist Party or the Padishah want it, but by a convergence of circumstances and factors that are under no-ones control (very un-Soviet that is ). Take the labor migration. Was that a government policy to send people to Russia? No. It was a natural flow.”
I’m sorry but i don’t quite get it; i think these “circumstances” are povided by certain “things” and “people”. The “thing” in this case which caused the migration of labourers to Russia is the lack of jobs which in turn is the cause of the inefficiency of the regime’s politics.
And remember after all – Ataman – that in this case we are talking about masses. Masses DO tend to become affected by propaganda created by certain people and/or political/religious parties and people. I think if it was how you describe it – the term “propaganda” would never have been created.
Thanks for your definition of “social mobility”. I agree with you. These changes are fundamental in radical mentality change.
Reply
Darud-jan, pritshom tut ‘propaganda’?
Anyway, yes to an extent and in certain areas it can be effective especially if the propaganda a) confirms a certain state of mind and b) aims an audience with no capacity and practice of critical thinking.
In Turkmenistan, for instance, it is well possible that part of the population –especially younger kids and teenagers who do not know any better– has been brainwashed. And in places like Tashkent, there are many people, members of ethnic-confessional minorities and russianised-westernised urban Uzbeks in particular, who do buy into the propaganda jingle that the Taliban and Wahhabis will take over the country if Karimov is overthrown.
On the ohter hand, do not be mistake. People in the region may pay lip service to this or that line and censor themselves for teh sake of their own safety, they are not stupid and not as fooled as one thinks. On top of that, in today’s global reality where people are socially mobile, (neo-)Soviet propaganda approaches are less and less effective and sustainable.
“Im sorry but i dont quite get it; i think these circumstances are povided by certain things and people.”
Yes. I do not claim the opposite. What I do say is that they are rarely the result of a master plan but often unexpected or unplanned. Take the labor migration again. What has played a role?
1) the collapse of the Soviet colonial economy and the civil war; 2) structural poverty enhanced by extreme corruption and neo-feudalism; 3) demographic pressure and land shortage; 4) economic growth in Russia or at least certain enclaves and regions there, combined with a demograpic/labor deficit; 5) the presence of an ex-colonial language (Russian) that remained the regional lingua franca.
When I talked about ‘a natural phenomenon’, I did not meant anything biological of physics, no, I mean but that things moved the way they moved beacuse a number of factors converged/coincided even if nobody planned they would.
Reply
Very useful and excellent information..
Reply
[...] the head of a department responsible for enforcement of the famous law “On regulation of traditions and customs” in Tajikistan, Abdunabi Kholikov reported on [...]
[...] really do not understand our parliament which passes strange laws one after another, as if there is nothing more important to be busy with. I think, this is another [...]
[...] and fortune-telling. Actually, this comes as a no-surprise to many Tajiks after all those strange laws that have been passed one after another by our parliament. The bill on witchery is also part of the [...]
[...] privacy, and individual rights.) http://tajikistan.neweurasia.net/2006/09/26/golden-mouths-control/ http://tajikistan.neweurasia.net/2007/05/25/cultural-reforms-continue/ [...]
[...] quiet cultural revolution just made a very loud collect call to mobile phones. All mobile phone ads have suddenly disappeared [...]