Comments on: Fuller-length Andijan Video Released

By: Ataman Rakin

Ataman Rakin — Sat, 01 Jul 2006 16:04:16 +0000

In other countries too, e.g. Pakistan: UÃ§ Sharif (a holy site for Sunni as well as Shia Sufis) and Hasan Abdal near Rawalpindi (a Qadiriyya site).

By: Stavros

Stavros — Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:23:37 +0000

night_eulen brings up the important point that Islam is Bukhara and Uzbekistan is different that what many think when this think Islam. On a recent trip to the country as a tourist one has almost total access to holly sites, even woman do to a little lesser extent. Suspect that this would be different in many other states where the majority of the population is Muslim and that this could change.

By: night_eulen

night_eulen — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:17:18 +0000

Depending on how you read the history of Bukhara which was written by Narshaki it reads that the Bukharans were converted three times. And this was pre-Mongolian :???: .

So it depends how you read it….

By: Ataman Rakin

Ataman Rakin — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:18:19 +0000

Ab’r du, d’r Benniiii du bis’ so oina rote Preusse ja! Ab’r bei uns in Nordboyern soag’ mon ‘Fing’rspiitz’gefiiiihl’.:mrgreen:

“I just want to remind youm that Bukharans have been converted to Islam three times. The Arbs came, converted them and left. Then Bukahrans went back to their former believe. Islam in this part of teh world is differrent and it brought even many important developments to Europe (just think of Avicenna, the famous medician whose books were used in Europe until the 17th century!)”

Actually, that is an intersting point night eulen: do you mean converted *three times* or *in three waves*/through three vectors (the Arabs in the beginning; local Persian-Turkic dynasties like the Samanids; and through Sufi orders)?

Either case, Islam always came back even after the devastation by the Mongols. And it will be back again.

By: night_eulen

night_eulen — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:14:08 +0000

Yes, it is good to see the video and spend time listening (or rather reading) to the people. But again, any change of government in Uzbekistan will be anything but quite. Once the president steps down there is teh big danger that the country will become very unstable. This is a view that I also heart from two donor agencies that look at the country in worry. Anyway, lets hope for the better! But on the other hand, peole in this part of the world have a very special way of finding arrangements with their authorities. I just want to remind youm that Bukharans have been converted to Islam three times. The Arbs came, converted them and left. Then Bukahrans went back to their former believe. Islam in this part of teh world is differrent and it brought even many important developments to Europe (just think of Avicenna, the famous medician whose books were used in Europe until the 17th century!)

By: Ben

Ben — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:35:15 +0000

FingerspitzENgefuehl. ;)

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:47:15 +0000

(‘FingerspitzgefÃ¼hl?’ … Aha! exactly the word i was looking for … )

I hope that any regime-change will be largely peaceful, but again, circumstances on the ground may render that unlikely. We’ll see.

By: Ataman Rakin

Ataman Rakin — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:24:54 +0000

FingerspitzgefÃ¼hl?

â€œthat a cadre of armed men staged an uprising and took hostages, and were then joined by unarmed people who saw a crack in Uzbekistan’s oppressive security apparatus as a chance to demonstrate peacefully for freedom.â€?

Yes. I also believe that the unfolding of events in Andijan indicate more a home-grown move and a messy concourse of circumstances rather than a rational/international plot.

I watched parts of the video and can have nothing but respect for the people who — likely believing naively that â€˜the regimeâ€™ would listen to them rather than send in the troops — stood up against karimovist state terrorism.

So what if these people find/found courage in Islam?

This said, letâ€™s kick out a little taboo: any change for the better in Uzbekistan (probably Turkmenistan too) will not happen without at least a margin of violence and a period of score settling with regime goons (and certain expats/groups that are in cahoots with/protected/privileged by them).

We have to learn to accept that. Itâ€™s like puncturing an abscess or sweating out a flu. There is no other way to deal with power elites that are, by nature, psychopathic and only understand/respect the logics of violence.