What do Uzbek women think about sex?

This is a translation of the article which originally appeared on LiveJournal website. Some parts are omitted. [Update 29 August, 2012: This post continues to be controversial and attract comments, even five years later. Please feel free to add your voice!] So, imagine there is a charming young lady, physiologically ready for “exploits”. But what is inside her youthful mind? There is basically following: “No sex before marriage, because it is not permitted?”, which means that she is morally confident that it is bad, thus not needed. “No sex before marriage, because no one will marry me?” which is an…

This is a translation of the article which originally appeared on LiveJournal website. Some parts are omitted. [Update 29 August, 2012: This post continues to be controversial and attract comments, even five years later. Please feel free to add your voice!]

So, imagine there is a charming young lady, physiologically ready for “exploits”. But what is inside her youthful mind? There is basically following: “No sex before marriage, because it is not permitted?”, which means that she is morally confident that it is bad, thus not needed. “No sex before marriage, because no one will marry me?” which is an oriental social directive on pre-marriage virginity. Moreover, “No sex before marriage, what if I get pregnant?” in other words: no idea about contraception, although she knows about abortion, but it is scary, so the hell with damn sex.

Let’s suppose that the lady somehow followed the path of sin and vice and lost her virginity. If she had intimacy with the one who will marry her (either because of true love or because of threats), then at the first wedding night (in fact, the second) her fiancé would cut, most probably, his finger to get some blood mixed with saliva and spread that on bed-sheet presented to all next day. If she took the same path but ended up alone she still has to get married and she needs to be “innocent”?. In that case there is a place called TashMI 2 [Tashkent Medical Institute] where they got used to sewing up hymens as much as abortions. That means this non-virgin lady is “brought back” to a previous stage.

There is certainly more problematic option, when the path ends with two lines on pregnancy test. Then she either has abortion secretly, followed by getting married being not virgin, or she keeps a child and forces him to marry blackmailing him. Another option is to remain alone with a baby and without any chances to get married.

Most probably she has a little idea about contraception. As for our men, they just don’t like it and say the same excuse like everywhere. Taking into account that man’s word is a rule for oriental woman, you can hardly find anyone arguing with that. As a result women get a whole bunch of illnesses. As in other parts of the world our local men bring lots of muck to their women. My cousin having done the same justified himself saying that when he was in business trip he had stale bed-sheets in a hotel, may be that is why his wife got syphilis. He told me that in her presence, my jaws were about falling on the table, while his wife took that bull shit on trust. Later, of course, I told him everything I think about him and about power of his imagination, advising him to be more creative next time. But the fact is that 90% of Uzbek women believe in such fairy tales. So one can make conclusions about our ignorance in that field.

Moreover we still have that psychological phenomenon about “no sex before marriage� because it is simply not allowed. On the other hand TashMI 2 is actively operating along with that phenomenon … so these mutually exclusive things somehow get along in our country.

Finally, as a result of that kind of no-sex-before-marriage attitude, in Tashkent men can survive picking up a prostitute or finding European girl with a normal thinking or persuading open-minded Uzbek girl, but in the provinces where there are no Europeans and very few prostitutes one can find flourishing pederasty and zoophilia (after all, sheep and donkeys are always available).

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  • What do Uzbek BOYS think about sex?

    It is fine for boys to have prostitutes and careless life, because one always knows there will be a young Uzbek chaste virgin girl to marry. So to say, an “untouched” and “non-filthy” girl. Macho traditions…

    • hey I am uzbek guy, and I have lived in village and lived centr of tashkent city,nowadays uzbek girls start to be more openmind,and there are alot non virgin girls. well boys? boys do not fuck donkey or any sheep. that is ridicules . they goes to kiss or to play with their girlfriend, or they go to prostitute or russian and european girls, so on, we never fuck anykind of animals,

  • […] –A look at sex and marriage at NewEurasia.net, from women’s perspective.  And Global Voices looks at marriage and […]

  • In America, men believe that all of the good men end up with terrible men for husbands. The best demonstration of this axiom is Central Asia, where the best women in the world [Uzbek women] end up with the worst possible men [Uzbek men].

  • Interesting. Recent research in Africa (Uganda, specifically) concluded that married men who carried on concurrent relationships (with prostitutes or companions they meet while far from home) contributed to the exponentional spread of HIV (as opposed to men who sleep with women serially, one at a time over a longer period).

    Can you hear that tick? That’s the sound of an HIV epidemic waiting to explode in Central Asia.

  • TO Andrew,

    HIV growth rate in Central Asia is already the highest among all the UNODC regions. you may find their report online. though, i suppose it must be more due to drug injections.

  • High rates of HIV infection are usually a result of various factors; IV drug use being only one of many. IV drug use is a very specific resevoir for HIV; a group that tends to be self-contained and isolated. For HIV to really get going in the general population, you need to get to the general population, which is through lots of males (and females) having concurrent sexual relations.

  • “a prostitute or finding European girl with a normal thinking”

    So for you prostitution is ‘normal thinking’…?

  • “What do Uzbek women think about sex?”

    Actually, I had a good laugh when I read this title, for it could come straight out of Moskovskii Komsomolets right next to an article about the sex life of Alla Pugachova and Filip Kirkonov. :)))))

  • actualy, this is my post from LJ…

    please, edit your post and give the link

  • Hi, thanks a lot of correction, I was looking for original source, but neither in Centrasia, nor in other websites were that article appeared was any name or original sourse.
    Thanks again

  • I’ll make necessary changes shortly

  • Kamron: I’m certain the Uzbek “male way of thinking” is pretty predominant in most countries. Unfortunately, these men expect to marry clean, chaste women & possibly infect them! Turning the tables, why should a clean, chaste woman even want to marry a man who has been with other women? It works both ways. Or do you guys throw sacks over them & carry them away?

  • I support the “no sex until marraige” concept, and I am planning to marry an Uzbek woman.

    In Uzbekestan, the sexually transmitted desease rate is less than a tenth of a percent (.1%). Can you name any “open sex” country that can say that? Of course not.

    If you cn’t wait for sex until you have a lifemate, then your reasons for wanting sex are entirely selfish, and you may not be mature enough to truly appreciate what an amazing and wonderful gift it is.

    You say that no sex before marriage means: “No sex before marriage, because it is not permitted� – it means that she is morally confident that it is bad, thus not needed. “No sex before marriage, because no one will marry me� – that is orient social directive on pre-marriage virginity. Moreover, “No sex before marriage, what if I get pregnant?�

    It does not to me or the woman I love. “No sex before marriage” means: “I have something so wonderful and amazing that only one very special person is going to be allowed by me to experience it, and they will expereience what no other person can, because I love them so much I want them to have me completely, and no one else.”

    It means being able to give something exclusive to the one you love, and knowing that it won’t be taken lightly and peddles with someone else, because you will have a lifelong committment together.

    Sex is not candy, to just pass out anywhere. For those who have sex promiscuously, it is like cotton candy – all fluff and no substance, and no long-term satisfaction.

    But for those who treasure it as the wonderous gift it can be, and use it only in marraige, there is long lasting substance and meat to it.

    • Davinski,

      many muslims assume that westerners do not know anything about things like “no sex before marriage”. However, if you take a look at history, virginity used to be a requirement for women as well in the west. The reason it is no longer a requirement, is not because we have no morals, but because our morals have changed through the modernization of the west. Modernization has not brought all good things, but it has improved the lot of women in many, many ways.

      Whether you admit to it or not, “no sex before marriage” put a heavy price on the virginity of WOMEN, and not the virginity of men. THis means that women were ridiculed, rebuffed, and punished for not being virgins, while men were not. In fact, both in the old west and in todays islamic countries (and this is still the case in some places in the west), men are taken to lose their virginiy to a prostitute, and this is considered acceptable. No sex before marriage punishes the sexual impulses of women while rewarding men’s sexual impulses. Finally, it has been proven in africa that because of the lustful lifestyles of MEN who frequent prostitutes and pass diseases on to their wives, the prohibition of sex for marriage minded women does not actually do much to curb the spread of diseases or the amount of sex going on. It also leads to men who are used to having sex with prostitutes and therefore, are quite unwilling to understand what women actually want in bed when they arent being paid for it.

      If you dont want to have sex before marriage, fine. This will not make sex any more wonderful for you and your wife. In fact muslim men are notorious for disrespecting women in the sack and just “putting it in”

      It may be that you are a respectful, moral and loving muslim man. However, a great number of muslim men do not fit this description.

      You may not like my language but I am telling the truth.

  • exotic thing,that’s what I have noted when I has visited Uzbekistan !!! no awareness …and that is the difference between society implements the Islamic canon and society doesn’t implement.the results is evident’s as per :Virginity absence -abortion operations.

  • Uzbek men prefer clean and fresh girls. So that he will not have thinking about girl’s previous boy friends and mostly boys don’t have sex before marriage as it is prohibited in religion. In the western countries there are too many troubles in family because fiance’s having sex with others with husband is away. And many families are spoiled because of this. In Uzbekistan a girl has only one sex partner (her husband). As for boy’s having sex with others it is because effecting western culture, because of many russian prostitutes in the streets. And boys are affraid to have sex with Uzbek girls before marriage. Afraid of taking Viginity. In europen countries males get married to torted pussy women. after that they are not satisfied and war in the family. In Uzbekistan males are satisfies with their wives. and girls once have sex with one male and she begins loving him. So all others who are fucking torted pussy don’t poke your nose into Uzbek culture. Fuck your torned big hole pussies. One more fact is there are to many homosexuals in european countries because males prefer to fuck male ass rather than women torned big hole pussy. In Uzbekistan there is no gay. Maybe but I have never known or seen or they maybe europeans.
    So Kamron now you know what is the secret of Virginity in Uzbekistan. You have to think about why GOD has given Virginity to females not to males.

    • @Nakamatsu,
      Ha ha ha, Nakamatsu, keep dreaming! I am European married to an Uzbek and think he is a sex God and he is happy with me. I was even married previously and he knows but doesn’t care because we are really happy together. He already has his papers so he didn’t marry me for “business”/ We really love and respect each other. (yes RESPECT) He has no secret girlfriend behind my back! I end up though taking care of helpless Uzbek women who are completely lost in my country. I know a few who have been abandoned by their husbands and are in poverty because they are stuck! Obviously there are many great things about Uzbek culture (my husband is a wonderful father!) but it is no heaven on earth!

      You obviously have no respect for women (calling them pussy??) and I feel sorry for the girl who ends up marrying you.

      • @Ninotchka, I am dating an Uzbek guy and I also think he is a sex God. He treats me so well like a princess and we are learning to live each other and give each other mutual respect. I am so happy. However the articles I read about the oppression of Muslim women and the horror stories of western women who married Muslim men scare me to death. However it is great to read your article and hear one success story ninotchka, My man is amazing I don’t think he has a nasty bone in his body. He knows that I have had other boyfriends and does not think that I am dirty. Some of the people on this site are talking about women who exercise their sexuality freely as dirty, I think it should be viewed as normal and healthy, it is part of development

      • @Ninotchka what really uzbekiman want only money ,love or sex ? There communite not allow to other religion or community girl,u have to make court marriage in uzbek counsel court.please take care.

    • Nakamatsu

      Actually, in muslim countries men find their way to have sex by having “lust marriages” and divorcing. Just because they are not having sex before marriage does not mean they are respecting the institution of marriage. And in central asia many men leave their first and second wives to find new wives in russia. No matter how submissive or good a woman is, a man can just divorce her according to islamic law whenever he feels like it. Then they can move on to another wife. This happens a lot and especially in poor regions.

      Men will always get tired of women in any culture, and it is not because american women are “loose”. Men get tired of women because it is their human nature. The important thing is that the democratic laws of the WEST protect children from divorce by ensuring child support.

      But I shouldnt even be explaining this to you, because you are an idiot. And rest assured that my “loose pussy” will always be unavailable to you, because I would rather take my own life than give it to you.


      a loose woman.

  • Well, i’m an uzbek girl. i’ve read the article and all the comments. though i don’t like the article, i realize that it’s true. i guess i’m one of left 10%. our women make me angry so much. but i’m sure they would try to change smth about that, but the problem is, that the tradition of virginity is so comfortable for men. they like it. they like to fuck every prostitue and than to marry a stupid, non-experienced little girl(much younger), so that she thinks he’s a God in sex. and than he’s not satisfied because she’s too shy n too stupid, bla bla bla n goes back to prostitues. than one day one of that prostitues gets pregnant of him and she becomes his “second wife”. because it’s prohibited by law, he just arranges islamic ceremony and makes her his wife. the 1st one finds it out only when he already has 2 or 3 children from the 2nd.
    so, that’s the way it is with 90%. i don’t blame anyone, i just constanted the facts.

    • @Shirin,

      I want to know you

    • @Shirin, U r right 100 %.one man like indian lady so much in love but than he went to his country uzbek marry with small girl 17 year old.He sister shahenaz name here make different story,lieing to that indian girl to save his brother for money.but indian girl lucky she survive thanks to god,alah.I belive who not respect lady alah never forgive him.SE u.take care

  • Dear Kamron and the readers,

    a very interesting read, especially the comments. interestingly, it was mainly males who commented on the article, except for Shirin, and thank you for a brilliant comment. Being a Central Asian girl too I think I should make my own contribution to this forum, the way males think about what girls think about sex.
    Kamron, is getting it quite close, there is no sex education in Uzbekistan, information about sex reaches the minds of girls quite late, and from quite dirty souces, it is not their mothers or teachers telling them all about sex. it is not even books, but rather talks in the streets with a little older girls. usually first knowledge about sex is shocking. Girls grow up in a manner where they are strictly instructed about hiding their bodies, being careful with opposite sex. Sex is a crime for an unmarried young lady. They dont think about getting pregnant, they think about parents, about honesty, about relatives, neighbours, what would they all say? brothers and fathers might kill them for this. and moreover every respecting girl wants others to think of her as of totally non-sexual creature, which means clean. The way Nakamatsu draws the picture of dirty europe and clean uzbekistan shows his traumatic look at sex. SEX is DIRTY for him! Dear Nakamatsu, I dont know if you lived in Uzbekistan or if you have been one of the little minority of men who didnt have sex before marriage because it was prohibited by religion, usually men are well experienced in these matters. What means well experienced? their experience is also gathered usually somewhere in dirty little rooms of either a little too stupid girls who cant appreciate themselves or a quite experienced elder women, who make their business. Nakamtsu, adultry is not a western innovation, it is UNIVERSAL! we in Uzbekistan had adultry way before we ever got so close to the western culture. it is a little troubling the way you idealise uzbek society, guess you havent been there for ages. If you want to know more about Uzbekistan, read some literature from Middle Ages, you will see then we had homosexuality (bacha-bozi), then we had adultry! We in Uzbekistan are not particularly clean or the West is not particularly dirty! and believe me, men didnt start committing adultry since hollywood films appeared! read Hamza at least, late 19th century and beginning of 20th centuries, ‘mysteries of paranja’, for instance.
    I agree with Shirin, that the virginity concept is a very comfortable ground for men. and the scenario she depicted is quite a common one, but i would strongly disagree with putting the number of such cases to 90%.
    i read a very interesting anthropological research work on the role of sacrifices in persian/tajik-speaking population of Central Asia, which goes as far to Zoroastrian times. There the wedding is described as an act of sacrifice, where the father is the one who sacrifices, the groom is a God to him the sacrifice is made, and the bride is a prey/sacrifice itself; virginity wasnt very important for the people of those times; but because the bride was seen as a sacrifice she was supposed to be virgin. previously zoroastrians would kill a sheep which not yet born babies, to sacrifice, i.e. virgin. but this puts a woman in a role of a passive gift to a man! and this goes on till now. after the marriage, the parents of the groom would telephone the parents of the bride and thank them for the virgin bride, for the good upbringing (if there was blood on the sheets of course). she is merely a gift to someone. this is how passive women are viewed to be.
    Anyway, virginity and sex before marriage, is not the religious decision, it is the decision of the two.
    Jamiyat was right asking the question of what boys think about sex. there are many stories of girls being seduced to lay with a man, to prove her love to him, and then he would leave her, because he thinks, she could do it to everyone else, she being unpure, and broken (it is interesting but this sort of wording is used with the girls who were supposedly not virgins anymore, they are being spoilt or broken). is it not mean?! what an interesting view have the boys got on the matter? Kamron, maybe this is another idea for another post?

    a girl

  • Thanks guys for your brilliant comments, except Nakamatsu who is quite rude in his remarks.
    Anyways, I promise to come back with a post called what uzbek men think about sex

  • Well… I was born in Uzbekistan (Samarkand), lived in a small village in the mountains and then in Tashkent.
    Women in the provinces of Uzbekistan are more traditional than in the City.
    Back in the 60s and 70s even in Tashkent young women were very modest and belonged only to their husbands.
    Nowdays is a different story: a lot of influence from Russian media and press. There are plenty of pre-marital sex relationship.
    Wealthy men have more than 1 wife.
    Divorces are more common and women’s morale depends on her family upbringing.


    • @AVAZ, bravo……………..

    • Hello all, I am an american woman married to an uzbek man, we have been married for 15 years and we reside in the united States. We have 5 children, 3 sons and 2 daughters. I have been to uzbekistan for travel with him many times, I also know of many uzbek men who are here in America working and going to school, they have uzbek wives back home and in some cases several childen, i have witnessed them to have multiple relationships here that i am sure their wives will never know about. Does not respect, loyalty and trust come more important or at least as important than ones virginity. I do not think that every Uzbek man is rude, disrespectful, controlling and insecure, but i have long ago made up my mind that this must be the truth for most. Just recently i had a lengthy conversation with an uzbek woman who was from Samarkand, she was 24 and still not married she was studying in tashkent when i visited, when i asked her what she wanted from her life she replied “a husband and children” being so old and still single she was scared that she may never be a wife or a mother i was so saddened by her response. being a mother and wife i know that it is an amazing role that you are blessed to have but i want my daughters to have other dreams as well, and i want my sons to respect women who have aspirations higher than getting married at 18 and having their first child by 19. I think women in Uzbekistan dont want this they have only conformed to it, it is what they know and in a male dominating society they have little choice. as a mother i want my daughters to go to college if they choose, do things to benefit them in the future so they are not forced to rely on a two-timing man. To Uzbek women i applaud your strength, beauty and your character…

  • Dear,

    I feel that you are talking about the a culture like us in egypt because we are muslims like you, I agree with the one who said that Hollywood had affect all the world not only us,Also i agree that we as men afraid from ladies that lies on their parents and may make sex with their boy friends, What i feel and i want to announce to all the girls in the world is that SEX befor marriage will not make you happy with your boyfriend after marriage but you will loose alot of respect because Allah (God) will leave you alone without support.from my bad experience ,i married my fiance that i kissed her befor and when i did so, i never think that we will fight with each other after marry. NOW,I am looking for a kiss at least from my wife,not sex,and i m always in problems with her,i think all that is a normal result to what happened befor marriage,

    The Islamic culture is a good culture that makes a happy family really,and if u read about the old muslims you will feel the goodness of this culture.the rule (NO sex befor marry) is a normal rule and what they are doing in the western is not normal,now they are suffering from diseases and feeling lonely.because they dont think about making families….
    SO PLZ UZBEK woman stay think in your culture you will be more respectable and loveable from your Creator and then from everyone..

    Best wishes

    • the egyptian culture is not better than any other culture. Allah is the same god as the god that jews and christians worship. Allah does not leave anyone for having sex before marriage, Allah forgives because his influence is gracious and he loves all people equally. Do not use religion to enforce your bigoted and narrow minded political views.

  • In Uzbekistan you can find different men and women. Most commentators came from their own conditions and tried to generalize their own life. Kamron also wrote a about himself. Great Respect to Uzbek woman and mothers. If you lost your interest to girl that means your eyesight has problem. life is not enough to discover the beautes of the woman.
    I do not agree with those such as shirin who saw the West for a little time and thinks about herself educated. The freedom is not freedom there It is slavery to your bodily desires..
    However Kamron who are you I don’t know but don’t do it again. You did spread exaggerated information and the other bad is that even you spread information you cannot supply its proper understanding.
    Think about implications, as you are man. Uzbek girls think about implications but u could not do it…

  • Just because you are a Muslim man does not mean you don’t have sex before marriage. Ideally you are not supposed to just like Christians BUT you do….Why do some people fear being judged so much that they have to make it look like they are so much better than others?

    If you are not a virgin don’t expect the women to be virgins.

    Why do you think that a man wanting to have sex is normal and a woman wanting to have sex is bad?

    All women like sex if it’s done properly. No matter what any woman has said to you for fear of being judged or getting a bad reputation.

    You are very selfish if you think that only men should enjoy sex. Not to mention sick in the head.

    And people having sex befor marriage is not just a western thing. It happens all over the world including the Muslim world.

    And gays do exist in Uzbekistan just like anywhere else in t he world. The reason why you think you don’t know any gay men is probably because your government arrests or kills people for being gay.

  • Thank you very much for this topic. I enjoyed reading it and the comments. I do agree that we have our culture that should be preserved, and that our culture is based on Islamic traditions. Islam is a foundation of our culture. I am not saying that we need a theocracy or a religious government. I am talking about Islamic values in our culture, daily lives, personal lives. I remember president Karimov (excuse me for quoting this son of a gun) talking about “Milliy G’oya” – a “National Idea” a few years ago. Well, guess what? We already have a National Idea. We had it for centuries. It is Islam. Even if some of us don’t realize it. Even if we don’t pray five times a day, or fast only for a few days in Ramadan. Even if our women don’t don’t cover their faces. Islam is still there. It is in our blood. Call it “O’zbekchilik” if you wish. No sex before marriage is one of the rules. Adultery is a grave sin. But even if we put religion aside, Western way of life is making our morals (and our family values) decay. BUT we have to be honest with ourselves. Just because there are no physiological proofs (except for occasional STD’s, but hey:)) that a man is not a virgin at the time of the marriage does not mean that man should have pre-marital sex. I am sick and tired of this hypocrisy. How can we demand the girls we marry to be pure and virgin if we, ourselves are not? I had pre-marital sex. I think it is wrong from Islamic point of view. I know that what I did was wrong and know what I have to work on. And I would like to marry a virgin girl. I know that I might sound like a hypocrite, speaking of Islamic values and admitting that I committed adultery. But at least I admit it. Only Allah is perfect and to err is human. I’m just saying that our men should try clean themselves up first, and then demand purity from their future wives. Get out of mentality that you are all perfect and it’s perfectly OK for you to mess around with girls before marriage and it’s not OK for the girls to act the same way. To make it short: Many girls here said – “If men can do it before marriage, why can’t we?”. The question should be different – “If girls can’t do it why can men?” It is not about allowing girls to sin because men can sin. It is about restraining men from sin, because the girls are restrained enough. Anyways, that’s it, or I’ll get more confused than I already am)

    • @Musofir, Brother ur anwers is the PERFECT one. If girls can control themselves, why the guys can’t.??? I am a man and I want the VIRGIN girl as my future wife!!! That’s why for being FAIR to my future wife I’ve never had sex before and I will do it after marriage InshaAllah!!!

  • dears,

    i am personaly know about uzbek girls that thay are very kind & inocenet , because here in dubai, i saw too much uzbek girls and when i asked them about how thay come to dubai?? most of them are told me that we are divorced , and most of them have children and thay did not have any source in uzekistan to give food and education and give best life to there children , thay come to dubai and working in diffrent compnies for the sum of 400$ to 700 $,
    i have one salelady in my shope she is divorced and have a boy and she work hard for the best future for her boy.
    i want to help these inocent girls and want to do best for them.
    and i also apeal to other people to help them .

  • I have an idea!

    America invades Uzbekistan, slaughters the sheep-fucking backward male inhabitants who so unfairly insist on their wives not being whores, and removes the womenfolk to the West where they can “pursue a career” and contraceive, abort, and get fucked with impunity.

    Mosques destroyed. In their place, giant onyx phalli, wrapped in giant American flags.

    Christmas on Earth for the fine ladies of Uzbekistan!

  • Hello. And Bye. :)

  • […] the weekend. The blogosphere is buzzing with posts on Borat, some highlights here: On neweurasia, James asks whether Kazakhs are rightfully being offended by the defamations put forward in the movie, and the […]

  • Well, I don’t see what is so great about virgins, quite frankly. They are usually in a lot of pain and hardly appreciate the first experiences. Liking the man who gives you pain in sex is an act of forgiveness. That might be beautiful in a twisted way, but is it ideal? Is it real love or is it pity? The difference in Western cutlure is it seek out both kind of love, the kind that you feel when you meet someone and the kind that you feel after years together and knowing that they are right for your family. I don’t think either one is better. They’re just different ideas. Do you want to own someone who resents you? Says the West. Do you want to own someone who’s not really yours? Says the East. And in the end both have the same number of happy or unhappy marriages. Human bondage and love find each other in every culture. And that’s how it is.

  • It’s interesting to read the article these replies. It seems like a lot of you are from Uzbekistan or other Muslim countries. A big theme here seems to be that not only is Islam the way people should live, but that there is one way people should live. So I have a question: why should one lifestyle be the solution for everyone, or for every Uzbek? What is wrong with people deciding for themselves how to live their own lives?

  • Interesting post. Shirin mentioned that we had adultery and homosexuality before the process of Westernization began. True. People always committed adultery, sodomy and other things. But you have to remember that even though these things existed in Uzbekistan back in the days, no one raised a voice demanding to make these things acceptable and legal. Some people did those things. But everyone knew that it was haram and wrong. Even those who did it. The difference between Islamic culture and what is being imposed on us by modern West is that Islam condemns these things, meanwhile West is preaching that it is ok to do them. Sure there will always be people doing it, whether you prohibit premarital sex or not. They do it in the West, and they do it in the East. Question is, do we consider it as the right thing to do, or do we condemn it. I live in the West. I see American families. Do I want that kind of family? NO!!! I am a man, I am not married, and I had sex with many women. Western women. Reasons? I am in my mid twenties, and not doing it would be bad for my health. I use protection, and I don’t sleep with whores in dirty little rooms that someone here mentioned. Why don’t I marry? I don’t want to marry a Western woman, and the fact that they have premarital sex is not the main reason. First of all, I don’t want a Western family, and don’t want my future kids to grow up in a different culture. Secondly, I am not ready for marriage yet. I need to finish my education, buy a house, establish a descent business or get a good job. Then I will be ready. Therefore I have premarital sex. It is a biological need, though I do realize that it is a sin. That is one of the reasons why Islam stresses the fact that Muslim men need to marry, and marry early. I can’t do it yet, for the reasons I mentioned above. I have never had sex with an Uzbek girl for several reasons. Reason #1: I respect our girls, and would never insult an Uzbek girl by offering to have premarital sex. Reason #2: I do not want the girl’s life to be ruined just because I have some hormones flowing through my body. Reason #3: yes, I am afraid of consequences. If I fall in love with an Uzbek girl, I will have enough patience and common sense to wait until we get married. The West is corrupting our morals. I’ve heard Qobil Qori, a prominent imam from one of Tashkent’s mosque preach. He was asked what he thinks about a growing number of Uzbek girls becoming prostitutes. He said that he heard people say that these were poor women who did it because of economic hardships. He said that during WWII, when Uzbek men were sent to the front, to fight Germans there were Uzbek women who ate dried, mold covered bread and grass, took care of their children, and worked day and night to support the country while waiting for their husbands to return, and even during those terrible times they did not sell their bodies and honor. So, talks about women selling their bodies today because of hardships are lame excuses. It is not the hard times, but fallen morals. One might call me a hypocrite for having premarital sex myself and wanting to marry a pure, virgin girl. I might be a hypocrite, but I have a right to dream about having a family built on moral values of my ancestors. I can assure you that I will not have sex with other women after I get married. I want my wife to be pure and raised with right values, so that my children will be raised with right values. If with Allah’s help I have a son, I will do everything to make sure that he is married early, so that he does not fall into sin, like I did. My father could not afford to give me my future. Inshallah I will give my children theirs.

    • Ofoq, I fully agree with you and Kobil-qori that prostitution is not so much an outcome of poverty and lack of education than it is of social degeneration and short-sighted greed. From my experience with living in poor communities in Tajikistan and other countries, I can confirm that there are more than enough poor and often also widowed women who keep a minimum of decency in part thanks to solid family ties. I also have a hard time to believe that most of these women ending up in Dubai and the likes do not know in advance what kind of ‘work’ they are going to do there. In fact, most are already doing that at home.

      Has ‘the West’ caused the degeneration? Partly. IMO, there are several causes. First, the psychological confusion after the rapid unraveling of Soviet society left people vulnerable for the flood of pornography and lifestyle media with unrealistic role models that came over Eurasia. Second, part of the region’s ‘elites’ excel in depravity themselves with Karimova junior as the saddest example. For these ‘elites’, promoting sexual depravity, alcohol and drugs is also a way to control the population. Third, there are all these neo-colonial gender programmes funded by the West and by international organisations and implemented by local vassal NGOs that want to transplant western ‘liberalism’ in the region, no matter what they cackle about ‘cultural sensitivity’. The result is that they often de facto support prostitution and the likes (not to speak of certain expatriates who are actively involved in it).

      Indeed, the problem is not that certain things exist as they always have and will continue to exist but that they are now being *promoted* as acceptable and healthy. And the biggest irony is that final purpose is not ‘liberation’ but neo-colonial *subjugation*.

    • @Ofoq Ho’ja, ummm, adultery and homosexuality are still wrong in the west despite what the media says.

  • Dear Readers,

    I agree with every one who says Viriginty and religion are seperate but it has become a tradition in many pro-islamic countries but it is not a relogoius practice in islam.

    God has given the female this gift(Viginity) to prove her pureness. I belive a traditional uzbek girl or any other traditional girl will not think about giving up her verginity under any cercumstances except in the blessed marriage and marriage is set in all the religions to union the two under one roof and this contract(marriage) seperate the human from animals.

    And for the above topic, i think there has been an Exaggeration about the uzbek women and the 21st century is full of sin. Adultry has been spread accross the globe and uzbek’s are not the only one who are suffering.

    Uzbek girls are told about the sex (we call it getting closer) only the day when they get marriage and thats safe for them and for all other virigin girls in the world. Thats why we still see some girls who are shy and loyal to thier husbands.

    And about sex education, we need to know that it is sin, not like the western girls who celebrate to loose her virginity with some unknown and unpure person. There are many books who is siutable for married couples, if you like to keep clean environment, not to experience it beofre merriage.

  • Sooo… i read most of the comments and the article of course. And i have to say, i do not like the way how the article was concluded. You suggest uzbek girls to be more open?? are you out of your mind?! maybe you have gotten the same influence as mentioned in your article about the “western culture”, the fact is you are an Uzbek boy too. I am uzbek, and i know my people. YES there is the TashMI 2 which does all that, but its not that simple!

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  • Hey guys. I am from Uzbekistan. Women like Shirin is a shame for the uzbek nation. Those prostitutes are mostly from families, that don’t have traditional values. They don’t care about the uzbek culture. According to Shirin uzbek girls have to fuck around left and right because uzbek men are doing that.)) But it is not true. I know a lot of uzbek guys who had never had sexual experience until they get married. Look at the European, African, South Eastern Asian, American girls, they don’t care about their relationship: if they like you they can have sex with you just like having a candy.)) And it is disgusting.

    • I am a latin american woman and sex for us is not considered dirty. It is considered a normal part of life and it is not considered disgusting. It is considered disgusting to a) punish a woman for not being a virgin b) kill women as a crime of honor c) use sex to get something you want instead of using it within the bounds of love. Have you ever even left your country? I dont know what it is that makes you hate people of other countries and cultures so much, but the world is too large for your little head to understand. Other cultures and countries have been in existence for millions of years before you were born, they have age old traditions that you do not understand, and instead of criticizing what you do not know, you should try to read and understand the cultures of others with honor and respect, just as other people should understand yours. You are not a good muslim, for a true muslim would not JUDGE and loves all people equally. You are disgusting.

      • @yyy,

        Well put, ‘yyy.’ And Beybars, it is *you*, my friend, who are a shame for the Uzbek nation, as with some of your equally bigoted comrades who posted above. I can only assume you are very young and naive. Insha’ Allah, you’ll grow up, learn a little compassion and tolerance, and stop being so pig-headed by the time you actually need to wield some real responsibility in your life.

      • @yyy, Interesting: from what high ground or perspective is a Latin American woman lecturing about Uzbekistan and being true Muslims or not? Are you working for one or another UN project, foreign NGO or similar neocolonial structure?

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  • I think everyone should do what makes them happy,and women should have sex when ever they are mature enough and ready…women should not give up everything they believe in because of a man…and a happy marriage is about mutual respect,love, kindness towards each other and having a common goal about the future…not about a woman being a virgin. Iv seen so many women depressed because they sacrificed everything they ever believed in for a man.And Mr.Beybars,Shrin is not a shame to Uzbeki women,that is her opinion just like u have your own…everyone has a right to do and believe in whatever makes them happy.And Ofoq u are such a hypocrite and believe me,just pray to God that you and your future wife will be in love and truly compatible,less u are going to cheat on her….I dislike people who judge others because of the fact that they are different…do not be fooled…i know so many American families that are happy….there happy and sad families everywhere…Once you become open minded and less prejudiced and kind to all kinds of people…you will experience the world at a far better and different level.

  • Iam surprised reading the article about Uzbek women after being to all the night clubs in the Gulf countries (most of the hookers were girls from Central Asia). Had a total different opinion about Central Asian Girls thought sex was like having a candy. Sad to know that they are just acting as professionals and do it for money all though they come from such conservative culture

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  • Hi everyone!!
    i dont know if this is the right place, but i need some help. Iknow that all this might seem stpid but honestly i really need to have some informations since i am very serious and honest man and i dont want to hurt anybody.
    I am Italian, and i met a beautiful Uzbek girl from Tashkent, she is not of russian ethnicity, but more oriental. She is divorced and has a daughter, we started as friends and now we realized that this feeling is going over a normal friendship, i am taking care of her and her daughter although i live in Italy and she lives in Tashkent, and she is not muslim. I want to express my love to her and i am sure that her feelings are the same as mine, but i am afraid of a different culture that she might not see the things as the same way i see them. I explain better, i have heard so many things up to now that have brought me to confusion, many say that Uzbek women are not serious, some other say that they are the most faithfull and care taking women on earth. Some say that the don’t sleep with their man before marriage and others say that they are just like any other women on earth. After some months of getting along to eachother, nex month i will go to Tashkent to see her, we only saw eachother once, in Dubai where she used to work and after she went back to Tashkent to grow up her little daughter, although we met in Dubai as friends, as a gentleman i never opened a discussion regarding sexuality in general with her, now that i will go visit her i would like to know in general, if Uzbek women are faithfull and care taking women, although we have almost the same age (6 years difference), she is so beautiful, and i am an average men, but with a very stable econical life. I dont care if she falls in love with me just becasue i can guaratee a future for her and for her daughter, all i care is that she is not just fooling me just for money and wealthyness. As many people i know that have gone through marriage agencies in Italy we always told to never trust beautiful women from Ukraine, St. Petersburg, Moldavia, because they only want to make a wealthy life and after they get married they just drop you off. Of course sexuality is important for me, even before marriage if two people truly love eachother, and i respect traditions of other cultures too, but i think that if she was married before and she has a daughter too, here we are not talking about virginity anymore. Please if someone has had a similar experience to mine can help me?. In the meantime i booked my flight and in sign of respect i booked a hotel where to stay in for the days i will be in Tashkent, althoug at the moment she did not say “come to stay in my house..”. If a friend should come over to visit me in Italy, i will surely open my house to him/her and i will never permit to go to a hotel. What is you opinion about this? thank you very much for the attention and for the help.

    • @Amadeus, it’s actually intriguing to read and think about your question as an American man who’s more professionally engaged in the region. Judging from your remark about “never trust a beautiful woman from St. Petersburg etc. etc.”, you are aware of the problem of stereotypes: where do we draw the line between truth and unwarranted prejudice, and most of all, where do we draw the line between generalities and individuals? There aren’t easy answers.

      However, you should be aware that the Uzbeks have many unfair things said about them. This arises from a number of different sources. For example, Soviet nation-planning purposefully left significant numbers of Uzbeks in the countries surrounding Uzbekistan. During the communist period, rivalries developed between these Uzbek “expatriates” (often a status they received because of internal Soviet regulations), who often adapted to communism, and the “titulars” (i.e., the people to whom the countries are “supposed to belong” by dint of namesake), who often resisted it. These rivalries have worsened since independence. For example, in Kyrgyzstan (where the situation has become violent), the Uzbek community has been especially successful in terms of business and professionalization, while in Kazakhstan, they have been more dependent upon social welfare.

      Another source arises from the nature of their government: the sad truth is, it is among the most corrupt and violent in the world. Indeed, it is a rather frightening force in the region, and is often seen as an opponent to development, especially in Tajikistan (who are trying to develop their water resources but are being opposed by the Uzbekistani government). However, people forget that the regime is in many respects an inheritance from the Soviet intelligence apparatus and has been imposed upon the Uzbek people.

      And so on, and so on. The point is: try to be critical with respect to everything you hear about the Uzbeks.

      As for your specific predicament, the Uzbeks, like many of the Central Asians, can often be torn between “Tradition” and “Modernity”. Newcomers to the region often use Russification as their measure, i.e., the extent to which a person has embraced not only the Russian language, but the Russian worldview, then the more “Western” (and in the case of women, therefore the more “open” or “promiscuous”) they are supposed to be. The reality, however, is much more complex, and this women you are interested in has probably spent her whole life trying to navigate “what is” and “isn’t” supposed to be “Uzbek”.

      In the end, my instinct is that you’re making the right choice about the hotel; that will keep both of you out of trouble, for many reasons (ranging from backbiting in her neighborhood to the suspicion of secret police to your own sense of dignity). But what you’ve got to do with her is what all men have to do with women everywhere: tell her the truth about your feelings.

      But, be diplomatic. Preface yourself by saying something along the lines of, “I’m very new to your culture so I don’t know what is and isn’t appropriate. However, I have something I need to tell you, which I hope shall not be offensive or intrusive.” Or something along those lines.

      And, well, good luck.

    • @Amadeus, and one more thing: cool it with the sex, focus on the heart. The one will come with the other. (Easier said than done, I know!)

      • Thank you very much for your reply Schwartz, i appreciate very much your point of you, actually i have been traveling all over asia in past and i have lived for 9 years in a muslim country in south east asia,so i am well aware of different cultures

        This woman is well “westernized” anyway, and regarding the “sexuality” argument” it is not something i want to “touch or feel” on my first date, of course i am not going there for a sex trip, in that case i cna find it here in Italy in a much easier and less expensice way :-)).

        My only purpose was to know about the faithfulness and honesty of women from that country, so many italian and other european men began relations with women from countries of that part of the world that in sign of respect i dont want to mention and found themselves just used, they started by sayinf that they had problems, ill children, need of mecines, and it was just to spill out some money out of them. That is why i was wondering if there is anyone committed to a uzbek woman that cna somehow share his experience with me. I trust very much in this woman, but in nowadays you never know.

        Anyway thank you very much for your reply and i will surely keep it in my mind. :-)

      • @amadeus, check out John’s comment below. It’s true that you have to be careful that you aren’t just being used for a visa, but for better or for worse, one can only determine that the “hard way”. But, in a sense, that’s also no different than any other romantic commitment — a couple never really knows where they stand with each other until they’re deep in things together.

        But my other thought is this: Uzbekistan is a very impoverished country, and culturally, the family/clan is very central. She could indeed be the most genuine, sincere person in the world, head over heals for you, and totally capable of earning a living for herself (after all, you met her in Dubai while she was working there), but if her home situation is crap, you’re going to need to help her. That’s the nature of commitment in general — you’re in things *together*, which means you have to deal with each other’s backgrounds and families — much less when dealing with very glaring differences in material conditions as that which exists between East and West.

        But maybe you know this already, and just need to hear another Western guy tell you. ;-) The real point then, is, that *at root*, if you two are transparent and fair with each other, it won’t be any different a relationship than what you can expect in the West. Yes, there will be the cultural and socio-economic differences, but it’s not like all Westerners are the same, much less fit together.

      • PS — re: faithfulness, your stated concern, it’s been my experience that they are exactly the same as Westerners, as susceptible to doubt and the temptation to betray, and also just as capable of commitment. Yes, they have a certain cultural structure that emphasizes fidelity, but they are also fallible human beings. Being involved with an Uzbek is going to be subject to the same rules, hopes, and worries as involvement with a Westerner; one cannot “rest easy” on cultural assumptions. Everything shall come down to her individual character and the dynamic of your relationship with her, both of which will only be revealed and developed in time. Love is, by nature, a gamble.

  • @Amadeus
    Hello Amadeus, I can say I have experience with a woman from Kyrgyzstan (Russian nationality). She was living in KG for more then 12 years when I found her. She was (and is) beautiful too and after one year after our first meeting and about 3000 ! LONG letters I visit her again 4 times in one year to make sure that we are ment for each other.
    Also I sent a lot of money because in the city where she lived was a lot of unemployement. But I did not care about it, she was sweet, lovely and beautiful. I travelled a lot for my work and suddenly I did not want that anymore.
    However…. To get her to Europe I need to warn you. It is almost impossible already to take woman from those areas to Europe. You need to have a lot of love to accomplish such. Maybe it is in Italy more easy, but where I come from it is almost impossible.

    Of course there are woman from these countries who want to have a better life. Really, Ukraine woman are famous for it and even my (Russian) wife who lived near Ukraine tells me about it.
    It is bad living in the former USSR south asian states and I believe Tadjikistan is not better then KG. There they go for a better life, but I am sure that after some months if you really like each other, you will know about it (and sexual feelings too) and feel it in letters (or Skype).If not I should have doubts about it really.
    You told that she was working in Dubai, it means she know some of the world and she was able to go abroad which is not always easy for these people.


  • Thanks a lot guys!!, i really appreciate your words :-)

    My situation is just like yours was John, as a matter of fact the sistuation of povherty and unployment is tought down there, she in alone, her parents both died and she is growing up a little daughter, as soon as she was born her ex husband left her doen not provide anything for her, and i am taking care of everything for everything from Italy, i send her money for all her needs and iapplied the little daughter for a english private kindergarden.
    I am from southern Italy and we have high family values and i am well concerned of the word “together” that’s the way i wish a couple is. Bad People and good people are everywhere of course its not a matter or nationality or country.
    Regarding the visa to get her in Italy, i heard that is very very difficult, but provviding her with a work contract could help make things easier i suppose, at least Italian laws permit immigrants to come in Italy if they are provided with a working contract.

    Thank you very much for your help guys, i appreciate it very much !

  • OK, so clearly the author of the article is an idiot. Uzbeki girls want what girls all over the world want.

    Girls just wanna have fun!
    That’s all they really wa-aa-ant!
    When the working day is done
    Girls they wanna have fun!

    Oh, father dear we’re not the fortunate ones
    But girls just wanna have fun.

    That’s all they really wa-aa-nt.
    Is to have some fu-u-un.
    When the working day is done
    Girls just want to have fun.

    Anything else is over thinking it.

  • Namuncha bular kup gapirmasa. who cares ur opinion now. go work n do smth good for ur country instead of chatting over here. Usha odamla ishini tuxtatmidi baribir bu gapladan keyin baribir.

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